Who Decides What Women’s Bodies Say?

February 13, 2008

(Hint: The women whose bodies are being discussed are often left out of the conversation.)

Ann at Feministing wants you to know that:

“[T]here are dozens of real, compelling reasons to switch to a vegan lifestyle — none of them based on sexist bullshit.”

Alas, she doesn’t give a single reason. Not in this post at Feministing or any other post at Feministing.

Instead, she points out all the so-called “sexist bullshit” used to promote veganism:

3 PETA nude ads

“This is definitely part of a trend — starting with PETA ads — in which women’s bodies are used as a way of promoting veganism and vegetarianism. There’s also L.A.’s Vegan Vixens, “sexy, trendy and fun loving women whose goal is to inspire men to live a longer and happier life, by making healthier decisions on what they consume.” And now the vegan strip club.”

Here’s the video about the vegan strip club:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjBPkUFel7U[/youtube]

Oh noes! The world is going to end because one strip club owner decided not to serve animal products!

You’d think maybe Ann would catch some of the sexist bullshit from the “journalist” in this piece, but no, all the sexism belongs solely to Diablo, the club owner, and through the transitive property of Huckabee, the sexism belongs to vegans.

You’d think Ann didn’t even catch the part where one stripper says she prefers working in a strip club that serves only vegan food because she’s vegetarian. Maybe she didn’t catch it. Maybe… just maybe… she’s not really interested in what the strippers think. Because, you know, they’re just meat afterall, and not real people.

For example, do you think Ann spoke to any of the women working at the vegan strip club? Or even any strippers about this new club? Do you think she bothered to get their input before assuming the whole notion was sexist?

Do you really think she cares about the women working in this club or is she just using them to make her point, in the same way she claims the club owner uses them?

PETA ad copies American Beauty ad

(For example, what makes this ad above so different from the American Beauty image it copies? Could it be some people want to see sexism and misogyny here because it’s by PETA? Sure sounds like that’s the case, given these ads aren’t any more risque than BlueFly ads and Feministing never comments on those. )

Does Ann’s assumption that hetero men are the only people who frequent strip clubs say anything about her? Maybe that she’s ignoring the very real possibility that many of these dancers are lesbians and some of their clients are women. See Ann’s comments here:

“The Maxim-like PETA ads, the Vegan Vixens, the strip club: All are saying it’s okay to buck the stereotype of Real Men Eat Red Meat, because here are some naked ladies to reassure you that you’re still a superhetero manly man! Almost as if they’re saying, you won’t even miss eating meat, because you’ll get to look at so much of it! Or as Diablo puts it, “We put the meat on the pole, not on the plate.””

Seems to me like Ann is assuming that only hetero men look at strippers, porn, and naked women. Interesting. Did Ann put on her heterosexist hat today just for the vegans or is she always like this?

peta ad

(Do we really think that stripping is evil and can’t be combined with activism? Really? Are you sure?)

Ann goes on:

“This trend seems to confirm much of what Carol Adams observed in the The Sexual Politics of Meat — and then turn it on its head.”

That’s interesting because what does it say? It says the tools oppression are malleable (if you think objectification is inherently evil).

By the way, they do it to men, too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js6kwC56wXE[/youtube]

Don’t use “evidence” of some misogyny to marginalize another already marginalized group. And yeah, Ann, that’s what you’re doing when you ONLY present the side of the story that confirms the traditional narrative that vegans are misanthropic.

Like I said a few days ago:

When you’re responding to oppression comparisons you find offensive, be very careful not to misrepresent the people you claim to represent or protect.

And like I wrote last month:

There is a reason PETA receives so much heat for their nude campaigns and not for their clothed campaigns. That reason isn’t just because PETA perpetuates the objectification of women; it’s because PETA exposes the objectification of women. The public reactions to nude PETA campaigns tend to be far more sexist and misogynist than the campaigns themselves. [...]

What’s dangerous about the naked PETA ads isn’t the nudity; it’s the fact that we recognize it as porn. And why do we recognize it that way? Because of our cultural understanding of what naked female bodies mean, as well as, PETA’s choices of which naked bodies to expose and how.

In our sexist, misogynistic culture, naked female bodies rarely mean anything other than heterosexual sex. Occasionally naked bodies are considered artistic expression or humor, but they are rarely seen as political or moral expression. This is one reason why when feminists view nude PETA ads and protests they recognize the ads or protests as sexist.

So, let’s talk about THAT instead of hating on vegans, k?

Read more about this Feministing post at the PPK >>

Posted by Elaine Vigneault | Filed Under Feminism, Philosophy and Guidance, The World, veganism 

« I’d Rather You Listen To Me With My Clothes On, But Since You Won’t…
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Comments

7 Responses to “Who Decides What Women’s Bodies Say?”

  1. Jul on February 14th, 2008 7:59 am

    I totally need to start using the transitive property of Huckabee in more of my logical reasoning.

    Jul’s last blog post..German train hazzards

  2. jovan byars on February 14th, 2008 10:27 am

    I thought that the only thing strip clubs sell is alcohol.

    jovan byars’s last blog post..Another Lonely Valentine’s Day for me…

  3. Elaine Vigneault on February 14th, 2008 11:02 am

    Jul - hahaha! It’s fun. You should try it :)

    jovan - Yup, they generally serve appetizer type food and some serve full dinners, at least during certain hours of the day.

  4. Tony on February 14th, 2008 12:02 pm

    Well said.

    I followed the to the PPK thread. My head hurt a little from it. I get the idea of sexism and exploitation, but in general, a strip club is just a strange place to hang your hat about either topic. Having been to a few strip clubs, and routinely bored by the experience, I get that a good percentage of patrons do objectify the women. I’ve also seen visitors talk to the women as if they’re actual human beings.

    But presumably the women are stripping by choice. They may have chosen it from a limited number of legitimate options, or they may have chosen it because their looks could generate more income than their brains, regardless of their intellect. That’s unfortunate, but to pretend like the women are victims is far too presumptuous and ultimately hinders the argument against sexism and misogyny by muddying the issue.

    Free will is the core distinction. Kudos to you for pointing that out so well.

    Tony’s last blog post..It’s the day for those three most important words.

  5. Elaine Vigneault on February 14th, 2008 12:54 pm

    Thanks, Tony.
    “Free will is the core distinction.” Exactly.
    Which is why it makes me sick when people make the comparison that meat is meat. No, it’s not. Animals cannot choose to participate in our economy and give us their flesh. They do not have a voice at all. Women can choose to participate and have a voice, so we should listen to their voices and respect their desires.

    However, I disagree with you that “they may have chosen it because their looks could generate more income than their brains, regardless of their intellect.” because that assumes stripping doesn’t require intelligence when it does. The money doesn’t just magically jump out of the patrons’ pockets and into the strippers’ hand. Strippers are salespeople/ marketers. And it takes the same kind of effort to sell a dance as it takes to sell a haircut or a meal or a massage or an outfit or a car or a watch or a therapy session or an education… Strippers use their bodies and their brains when they work.

    “presumably the women are stripping by choice” - I think that’s a good presumption about this club. If we were talking about an underground club with underage strippers, then it’d be different. Certainly, there are likely some women who want out of the business but feel their hands are tied by drug addiction, lack of alternative opportunities, etc. Those women should be helped out of the business. But the ones who want to stay there should be allowed to stay.

    Most importantly, we should listen to what they say and respect their wants.

  6. Tony on February 14th, 2008 6:37 pm

    … that assumes stripping doesn’t require intelligence when it does.

    Bad wording on my part. I wasn’t trying to imply that, or that strippers aren’t intelligent. I mean “academic” jobs rather than a job like stripping. The need for intellectual skills like sales are present in almost any profession. I mean, when choosing between being a scientist and a stripper, the latter can be qualified to be the former, but she will likely find better pay in the latter. (Whether that’s good or bad is a different discussion.) If she decides that the balance of the pros and cons of stripping outweigh the balance of being a scientist, it’s not our place to judge her decision.

    Again, this is the case as long as it’s freely chosen, which I think should be the general assumption. As you said, in the vegan strip club example, it’s probably reasonable to assume these women accepted the job by choice.

    Tony’s last blog post..“They will always disappoint” isn’t exclusively cynicism.

  7. Elaine Vigneault on February 14th, 2008 10:56 pm

    “If she decides that the balance of the pros and cons of stripping outweigh the balance of being a scientist, it’s not our place to judge her decision.”
    Exactly and well said.

    “it’s probably reasonable to assume these women accepted the job by choice.”
    Yes. And reasonable to assume women who strip for PETA do so by choice.

2 Trackbacks to “Who Decides What Women’s Bodies Say?”

  1. Michael Alan Miller » Don’t PETA out on February 13th, 2008 8:48 pm

    [...] Posted by Chill on 13 Feb 2008 at 05:48 pm | Tagged as: Uncategorized I agree with Elaine. [...]

  2. Vegan Bites | Vegan Soapbox on February 17th, 2008 9:02 pm

    [...] Elaine chimes in on the debate over women’s bodies [...]

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